cross-posted from: https://poptalk.scrubbles.tech/post/2333639
I was just forwarded this someone in my household who watches our server. That’s it folks. I’ve been a hold out for a long time, but this is honestly it.
They want me to pay to stream content that I bought from my hardware transcoded also on my hardware.
I’ll say it. As of today, I say Plex is dead. Luckily I’ve been setting up Jellyfin, I guess it’s time to make it production ready.
Edit: I have a Plex Pass. More comments saying “Just buy a plex pass” are seriously not getting it. I have a Plex Pass and my users are still getting this.
And for the thousandth person who wants to say the same things to me:
- YES I know I’m unaffected as a Plex Pass owner.
- My users were immediately angry at it, which made me angry. Our users don’t understand what plex pass is, and they shouldn’t have to, that’s why I had it. The fact that they were pinged even though it should have kept working is horribly sloppy
- Plex is still removing functionality. I don’t care that “People should pay their fair share”. If Plex wants to put every new feature behind a paywall, that’s completely okay. They are removing functionality.
- “But they have cloud costs”. Remote streaming is negligible to them. It’s a dynamic DNS service. Plex client logs in, asks where server is, plex cloud responds with the IP and port of where server is located. That’s it.
- “Good luck finding another remote streaming” - Again, Plex just opens up an IP and port. Jellyfin also just opens up an IP and port (Hold on jellyfin folks I know, security, that’s a separate conversation). All “remote streaming” is is their dynamic dns. Literal pennies to them. Know what actually is costing them money? Hosting all of that ad-supported “free” content that they’re probably losing money on.
In short, I don’t care how you justify it. Plex is doing something shitty. They’re removing functionality that has been free for years. I’m not responding to any more of your comments repeating the same arguments over and over.
Jellyfin. I’ve been waiting for Plex to do this for years. Enshitification is everywhere.
Heloooooo Jellyfin!
So let me get this straight: you own the content, you host the content on your machine, you pay the electricity and internet and plex says it can’t afford to let you share it to others without a subscription fee?
I mean making plex a one time fee if it’s good turnkey solution is fine but subscription…
Seems like it was only a matter of time.
20% more will jump to Jellyfin. The other 80% will entrench and talk even more about how great Plex is. I mean Jesus, $250 to watch pirated movies. lol wtf It’s also fucking wild to me that people are defending a monetization model that is on self hosted hardware. Like, I gotta pay for my server and then a license to avoid buying DVDs. Fuck it, at this point just buy the fucking movie.
Ya’ll are brain dead. Plex loves you tho.
Yup, read through this thread and it becomes clearer and clearer. and trust me, I’ve been a long time hold out, I’ve been through this many times - but this is the first time I’ve seen functionality removed from Plex to be put behind a paywall. And doing a price hike at the same time. Absolutely shitty. I’ve already migrated off.
You have a plex pass though, so nothing changed for you - you just got all angry because you didn’t read the email properly.
Your users are going to be much worse off now than they were, and you will absolutely lose a bunch of them who don’t want to (or can’t) have to connect to a VPN every time they want to stream from your library.
Why would they need to connect to a VPN every time they connect to Jellyfin?
Jellyfin has some security issues that, depending on who you ask, are either critical vulnerabilities that make it completely unsafe to expose to the Internet or largely unconcerning for regular users.
I’m not overly concerned about my instance running behind a reverse proxy. Perhaps I am just naive…
Honestly yeah. The Jellyfin Backend is basically unauthenticated for a large part, allowing anyone to map and stream your content as soon as they guessed the ids, which isn’t that hard, since they are based on the paths on your device. So if your movie sits in /mnt/media/movies/the_bee_movie that is pretty esay to guess and calculate the id from, allowing anyone to stream that content from your server
And apart from an undesirable bandwidth usage resulting from someone guessing their way to my file structure, how can this be used to compromise my server?
if you reverse proxy (w/ proper headers etc.) into a VPN this isn’t an issue
you will absolutely lose a bunch of them
I always see this and I have to ask: why do you care?
They likely aren’t paid customers of yours, if they don’t follow your rules and the software you like to use, then they are free to use any other method of consuming media.
VPN
Have to agree with the other comment that asks why do you need to use a vpn. Fax
I always see this and I have to ask: why do you care?
Because OP is scared of losing their users because of their incorrect thinking that Plex was requiring them all to buy a remote streaming pass, so clearly OPs goal is to not lose their users, right?
OP asked, we’re answering. That’s kinda the whole point of this thing called Lemmy. We don’t care per se, we’re just telling OP our opinions and thoughts on their questions and proposed solutions.
Have to agree with the other comment that asks why do you need to use a vpn. Fax
If you don’t use a VPN you’re putting yourself at risk. There’s no real way around it with Jellyfin, as others have said.
Sorry, I wasn’t clear. When I said “why do you care?”, I didn’t mean YOU specifically with OPs potential problem of losing users.
I meant why do people in general, who self-host software for friends/family, care if their friends/family stop using the software.
E.g. I have friends on Plex, but for whatever reason, I decide I want to move to Jellyfin. My friends stop streaming my media because they dont like jellyfin for whatever their own reasons may be. I personally wouldn’t care about losing them as “users”, because it’s not like they are paying customers. I let them access my instance for free, if they aren’t bothered enough to use it, then thats on them, not me to cater to their needs by keeping Plex around.
Hope that cleared up my meaning. I wasn’t attacking you for caring with your original response.
p.s. you are at risk by hosting Plex too, just in different ways. Plex still requires your server is open to the internet, right? Even if only Plex’s servers can access it, who’s to say Plex themselves don’t get hacked. Always a risk/reward type deal with hosting software, in my opinion, either are fine to expose.
It sounds like OP is charging users to stream from his server, that’s why he freaked out.
It’s also fucking wild to me that people are defending a monetization model that is on self hosted hardware.
It’s wild to me that people who claim to be tech savvy don’t understand that Plex Server, the software, is what makes Plex what it is and as popular as it is. No other solution exists that is as easy as Plex and as secure as Plex. Jellyfin, Emby, Kodi, etc are nowhere near as simple to use and don’t have the breadth of app support that Plex does. Plex is basically on every device anyone owns. They sign in and they can stream from everyones libraries. No VPNs needed, no other hoops.
I paid like $100 for a lifetime Plex Pass like 10 years ago. The 2 dozen friends and family that share my server don’t pay a cent and this changes nothing.
This.
I just set up Plex for my mom on her bargain bin cheapo android TV. It had the plex app right there and it’ll play without transcoding.
Can’t do that with Jellyfin.
This place sucks at times as it becomes clear it’s just an echo chamber that we used to call the Donald for.
My users don’t like the UI of Jellyfin as it isn’t as polished as Plex. I do this for my users and although it costs me money, it does save them a whole lot more money and means they’re taken out of some capitalist systems which should be the goal no?
I also have the cost of a VPN too.
Edit: The comment I replied to was on -6 upvotes at the time of posting.
I use jellyfin, and jellyfin is not safe to expose to the internet.
They have a handful of vulnerability and security holes that have been open for like 5+ years now. And the old emby architecture is quite difficult to work with.
And they actively refuse to do anything about them because it would force clients to update. You could just just as well open an unsecured ftp server to your content
A load of those so called vulnerabilities are way overblown and in most cases require you to be logged in anyway.
So you’re saying there are some vulnerabilities which are not overblown and therefore should be a concern?
That is with any piece of software. their will always be some vulnerabilities that are very bad. so by your definition using any piece of software is a concern.
I agree with you, it’s likely this vulnerability is only known because Jellyfin is open source… how many are hiding in Plex’s proprietary source code…
Anyways when has anyone ever been pwnd by this “exploit”, I have seriously never heard of anyone being “hacked” by one of them.
Definitely overblown as far as I am aware… don’t post your instance url all over the internet and you will likely be fine.
Using Plex (is fine, do whatever u want) and giving them your data instead doesn’t really help you (or at least sending your data through them).
My users don’t like the UI of Jellyfin as it isn’t as polished as Plex.
The UIs are nearly identical, though.
No other solution exists that is as easy as Plex and as secure as Plex.
Entrenchment. This is a profoundly absurd statement.
I paid like $100 for a lifetime Plex Pass like 10 years ago.
You paid $100 to access software hosted on your own devices. That’s wonderful you think that’s a great idea. I’m sure the Plex devs love you and would kiss you right on the mouth.
They sign in and they can stream from everyones libraries. No VPNs needed, no other hoops.
Because you’re vendor locked in… lol.
I paid $100 to play Forza Horizon on my own device too - should that have been free?
This is a profoundly absurd statement.
That no other solution exists that is as easy and secure as Plex? That’s not just absurd, but profoundly absurd? What other solution is there that is?
Your entire argument seems to be that software should be free if it’s on your own device, which is a profoundly absurd statement. The only paid software should be on hardware you don’t own?
I paid $100 to play Forza Horizon on my own device too - should that have been free?
This is a complete false equivalence and I feel that you know that. The idea of a console is to expand it by buying new games. That’s not unexpected.
Your entire argument seems to be that software should be free
I am a software developer. The argument isn’t that software should be free. The argument is that this is an exceptionally poor business model and as a developer I’m disgusted that people are defending it. The VC which owns Plex and other VCs will use this “logic” that you have to move the goal posts further, and further, and further, and further until there’s no such thing as free software anymore. And I think that’s fucked up.
At the end of the day you’re paying twice to avoid buying IP. Just fucking buy the IP if you’re going to be stupid. Movies are like $12. At $250 you’re paying $2.10/mo in addition to your hosting costs.
Just go buy 20 movies for the same price. It’s so dumb.
This is a complete false equivalence and I feel that you know that. The idea of a console is to expand it by buying new games. That’s not unexpected.
It’s not though. The idea of self hosting isn’t to not have any software costs associated with it. Domain names aren’t free. VPNs (that you use to aquire content) aren’t free. Cloud backups aren’t free. Would you prefer everything was free? Absolutely. Do you sometimes have to pay to get the best software for the job? Absolutely, and Plex is that software.
I am a software developer.
Same here! That makes your argument even crazier to me! Someone demanding that your software should be free and should never be changed to be paid even if it means the company goes under is bananas.
The argument is that this is an exceptionally poor business model and as a developer I’m disgusted that people are defending it.
The business model of having the people that use their main product that requires the most development and time and resources, Plex Server, pay either a cheap one off fee (that regularly goes on sale for half price) or a monthly subscription fee in order to use it, is “exceptionally poor”? How so? Is it just that it was free? This business model has been around for eternity. Get people in the door and hooked by offering it for free, then start charging for it. It’s one of the actual best business models around, not “exceptionally poor” lol. You’re looking at it from the “I want it to be free forever” point of view, not the “We need it to be a viable business with revenue to be able to sustain it” point of view.
until there’s no such thing as free software anymore.
That will never happen, because people will always be making free software to put out there for people to try and to use - and many of them will then transition to PAID because it’s not sustainable otherwise. For software to thrive you often have to have full time developers working on it, and full time developers need to be paid.
At the end of the day you’re paying twice to avoid buying IP. Just fucking buy the IP if you’re going to be stupid. Movies are like $12. At $250 you’re paying $2.10/mo in addition to your hosting costs.
Just go buy 20 movies for the same price. It’s so dumb.
I paid ~$100 ~10 years ago for Plex Pass. It paid for itself instantly as I was simply supporting the developers of the software. As a software developer I have no problem doing that. I wasn’t forced to buy it, but I did.
I’m not quite sure where you got this $250 figure from though? What is that, the monthly remote pass x 12? Also most people running a plex server get far more than 20 movies a year lol. Pretty sure I got 20 movies last night.
I dunno man, I don’t care much, when Plex gets shitty enough I’ll jump. But paying for the ongoing maintenance of software isn’t some evil thing, even if I self host it.
You’re not paying for software maintenance, you’re paying a subscription service to a private company that has already decided to cut back on features that others also thought they were paying to maintain.
If you want to actually pay for software maintenance, migrate to Jellyfin and pay them instead, rather than filtering your payments through middle managers and shareholders first.
Many of us bought lifetime passes ages ago though so we’re not paying a subscription.
But paying for the ongoing maintenance of software isn’t some evil thing, even if I self host it.
But that’s not what you’re paying for. You’re paying for access to that software…
I know. And some of that money, funds development, and some of that development includes security.
I started on Plex and even considered a lifetime Plex pass, but I felt like it was more interested in showing their content than my content. It was a lot of effort just to show music and movies.
My family and I use jellyfin every day now, and a key thing is it starts off boring but it shows your music, your movies, your books, your photos.
For folks who migrate who were paying, consider a donation to projects you make heavy use of. They don’t usually have big companies behind them and can use the help.
Exactly how I’ve felt. I paid for a pass a long time ago, when they were actively making features for us server owners - but lately it’s been a good 80-90% of their crap content and very little for server owners. I’m not even upset about their content really, it’s just they blately have ignored everything else. It’s shifted, and so I have to as well.
Lol “Your Friends at Plex”
get fucked, assholes, Jellyfin is better anyway
I fucking hate corporate speak.
Doesn’t jellyfin just not do this at all? Like if you want to stream remotely you need to figure out a vpn solution to do it?
Completely unreasonable to need to walk people through this. It’s OK to say jellyfin can’t do remote access.
You can stream remotely via jellyfin if you expose your server to the internet. VPN is safer but not the only option.
Yeah, no way. Jellyfins Backend is like an open barn door. And with the kind of content most of us here offer through either Jellyfin or Plex, I wouldn’t want to open up like that.
Anecdotal but I’ve run Jellyfin publicly without any issues for around 5 years. It even has its own domain name.
Oh no a paid, proprietary, piece of shit software does something shitty. Who could’ve ever saw this coming?!
I’ve said it for years anytime anyone mentioned running a Plex server. As soon as you install that on your server or your homelab it’s no longer your server. Proprietary software is malware
B-b-b-but my convenience!!!
The worst part for me was reading that they monitor everything you do, and what you streams and who looks at your stuff.
Wtf
I never got the idea of selfhosting but paying (except for enterprise-grade support or donations) anyway.
For a good while, Plex was the only game in town that did the job well, and they put the transcoding feature behind the paywall.
Given it wasn’t that expensive for a lifetime pass a number of years ago (I remember it was cheaper than a game anyway) and they still seemed relatively user-centric at the time, many people like me felt like they were supporting developers building something that was useful to us.
I still run my Plex server since it’s not really costing me not to, but I’ve been running Jellyfin too for a little while and it more or less can do the same job these days
Yup, for the time it was worth it. I got about 7 years out of my “lifetime” plex pass, and I got it on sale. All in all, I won’t say the money was wasted.
It’s 100% a waste if anyone pays for that BS monthly streaming fee though.
Wait so you’ve got a lifetime plex pass already? Then literally nothing changes for you or anyone that is streaming from your server.
I put my chips (£100) on Emby.
I haven’t regretted my purchase. I can’t sell anyone on much either, because Emby does all the same as other services, except they’ve kept adding features while Plex kept doing the Google thing and taking them away. CPU transcoding is free I believe, as is remote streaming up to 10 devices for each user… Idk I paid pretty early on, but lifetime license is where it’s at. Subscriptions just open your asshole for greedy CEOs to fuck you. Best to keep subscriptions voluntary, like donating on Github or Patreon
Emby was borne out of classic workplace toxicity, in that Jellyfin was becoming too corporate so a couple devs forked off to keep it clean.
I think you have that backwards. Jellyfin is a fork of emby
Indeed I did, I removed my speculative comments…
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I LOVE Jellyfin but can only imagine the amount of work I’d have to do if I tried to get my parents and in-laws successfully using it. We all just split the cost of lifetime Plex pass the last time it was on sale.
can only imagine the amount of work I’d have to do
Insert url. Insert login credentials.
What’s a url?
I see you know as much about Jellyfin as you do about my in-laws.
I run into you again! This time I get to wholeheartedly agree with you! You are spot on and nailed it.
I use Plex for exactly the reasons you said because when I set it up I didn’t know anything about self hosting a media server and I wanted to share with family in other locations. I keep it because it’s so easy for my older, less tech savvy family members to access so I don’t have to be their support person for it.
I’d consider Jellyfin if the end user access was more plug and play.
The biggest thing about this is I don’t get why OP is so annoyed. If you have a Plex Pass you’re not impacted, you can still share and your users can still access your library for free, they can’t share with you without a Plex Pass but who cares.
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I’d consider Jellyfin if the end user access was more plug and play.
It’s about as plug and play as any other website. They just open the app, type in the URL, and log in with their credentials and…that’s it.
After setting up an elaborate VPN scheme
No such scheme required
So you’re telling people to expose Jellyfin to the internet?
I’m not telling anyone what to do, I’m just saying the VPN is not necessary. Mine is exposed.
Any time you rely on another company to handle your data, you are beholden to their whims, end of story. Don’t like what they’re doing? Too bad. Give up the convenience and host it yourself, or continue to be a slave to their corporate interests.
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Been slowly chipping away at those for the last decade (could have gone way faster but I’m lazy), and I’m almost completely google-free. I dont use any microsoft products at home (work forces me to), and Apple can eat my ass. My phone is a completely de-googled GrapheneOS device (I don’t have an issue relying on companies for hardware, just software), and hopefully in the future a Liberux or Pinephone linux phone.
I self-host my own movies, music, and cloud storage. I also host my own chat service for friends and family, built on top of XMPP. The services i do use are generally very privacy respecting like Signal for people outside of my social sphere, or freedom respecting like Lemmy (mostly weaned off of reddit).
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Ahh there it is, I knew you’d do that.
I abide by my own lectures, I am actively putting effort into it and am 99% of the way there, which is 100% more than you.
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Downvote without explanation. Nice!
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I assume they replied to you after someone downvoted you but before all the upvotes.
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With Plex, you’re getting the easy ability to grant access to users. You get a single pane that can search across multiple Plex instances, and NAT traversal/port forwarding. Jellyfin makes you figure that out yourself.
It’s not exactly difficult if you use Tailscale or really any VPN. So I really don’t see the value for the cost; if you’re even considering self hosting a Plex server/instance, there’s a list of basic knowledge you should have or learn (like what you mentioned).
Its not difficult for technical people like you or me, but my friend who just wants to watch their favorite show on my Plex on their TV won’t know how to traffic engineer the traffic over a Tailscale network to my network. My mom won’t be installing Tailscale on her laptop and phone.
As long as the technical person does all of the setup on their end, the non technical person only has to enter a domain and port in their jellyfin client.
If you want to be on the hook for all IT requests from folks you share with, this is a fine approach. There are people out there who honestly don’t have a problem with that and more power to them. I doubt they are the majority, and a lot of selfhosters completely ignore this aspect of software. There is a reason non-free services exist beyond just “capitalism bad.” I mean, capitalism indeed bad, but your time is worth something.
I guess I haven’t noticed that. The non technically literate folk I know use smart TVs, or can download Jellyfin from an app store. Then they just use the URL when the app asks for it.
There’s no other configuring to do on their end.
They also need to run a VPN client.
Because you’re not putting bare jellyfin on the internet, right? You shouldn’t be doing that for most services in the first place, but doubly so for something that has a bunch of APIs that require no authentication: https://github.com/jellyfin/jellyfin/issues/5415
In the case of plex, it’s not 100% selfhosted. There’s a dependence on plexs public infrastructure for user management/authentication. They also help bypass NAT by proxying connections through their servers so you don’t have to setup port forwarding and can even easily escape double NAT situations.
I can understand paying for that convenience, but cost keeps rising while previously free features continue to get locked behind paywalls.
Tbh, having users required to authenticate with plex.tv was enough for me to look elsewhere. The biggest reason to self host for me is to remove dependency on public services.
The central user management is not a feature, it’s a hook to force people to pay for self-hosted software.
Can’t say I disagree.
I don’t see this talked about much anymore, but the day Plex added telemetry in 2017 was the day I became five-alarm desperate for an alternative. Had to wait a 2-3 years with Plex’s telemetry IP’s and domains blacklisted before Jellyfin was mature enough for me to make the change.
How Plex users can be comfortable with any telemetry is beyond me.
Not everyone cares that much. I don’t.
Enshittification marches on.
Guess it’s time to start using jellyfin and contributing
JellyFin is fantastic software and I have no complaints.
yup same. First thing I install on a new device is jellyfin. For software that’s relatively young, it’s pretty awesome.
not a plex user but someone buried the lede here… to me, this is the neon sign that screams GTFO:
we noticed that you’ve accessed libraries in the past
what business of yours is it to notice my private comings and goings?! what other actionable intel do y’all keep in your logs?! bye!
External servers are shared with you, they can just check which owners have libraries shared with them. That’s not some nefarious logging, its information they need to offer that function
Counterpoint: I can access my friend’s Jellyfin servers, and they can access mine, without anyone else in the world knowing what the fuck we’re doing. Saying “It’s necessary” always begs the question “Why did you make it necessary?”
Because Plex handles the initial connection for you allowing the clients to lunch through CGNAT and other shit. Also they handle the authentication, which I would fully agree would be nice to have independent, but that’s the reason
Not the brightest of those, imo: a while back they’ve opted their users in “discover together”, which is basically sharing your watch history with your plex friends. That went over as well as you’d expect: https://www.404media.co/plex-users-fear-discover-together-week-in-review-feature-will-leak-porn-habits-to-their-friends-and-family/
Welcome to jellyfin!
YES JELLYFIN! Thank you Plex for enshitifying!
And how are you doing remote streaming from friends with Jellyfin?
My mom streams mine across an ocean.
My whole family streams from my brother’s server hundreds of km away…
Dropped this for jellyfin years ago
