Bring Windows 12. Windows 11 is terrible.
I they call it Windouze I’ll consider it.
Windows 12 will be even worse
Yup…Windows 12? The evil monkey’s paw demon is like, “I’ll give you that wish for free.”
The author asks many questions, but never the most important one: “Why don’t people like Windows 11?”
Why would he? Anybody intersted already knows, rest doesn’t give a flying duck.
My question is this: Do Microsoft ship crap-infested versions to people who could make their lives uncomfortable, like, say, intelligence agencies, or do those agencies take a crap-infested version and have their IT security strip all the crap out?
Because if I was in charge of an intelligence agency I’d be asking - with dangerous smile - for the crap-free version, turn IT loose on it anyway and then be, shall we say, horribly invasive to Microsoft if there’s anything still left in it.
… and if I wanted Windows, I’d want whatever the end result of that is.
On the other hand, maybe this has already happened and that “horrible invasion” is the cause of all the spyware crap in the consumer release.
Sigh.
Both. The enterprise edition has less crap, but most big companies will use custom images and group policy to decrapify it further. I do the same thing at home since I used to be the guy doing it at work. I don’t get any of the copilot or recall bullshit.
No.
For Enterprise users they offer LTSC versions (bare minimum version of the OS) with extended support, and national agencies are able to get the source code of Windows under the program Shared Source Initiative.
Network traffic can be monitored, so a private intelligence agency also could watch any unwanted calls made solely by the OS and block them accordingly.
I mean, they could solve it by not making the mandatory successor an ad-laden, AI-infested, personal data harvesting, privacy-nightmare shit show. That would be a start. And also relax whatever the artificial requirement is that makes a lot of Win10 machines incompatible with 11.
Windows 10 is already an ad-laden, AI-infested, personal data harvesting, privacy-nightmare shit show. The problem with 11 is the ridiculous hardware requirements.
Windows 10 is trash and has always been. Windows 7 was the last good Windows, and I would still use it if it had security updates and DX12 support (I obviously mainly use Linux, but my gaming PC is on Windows, and no, some games I play and software I use 100% do not work on Linux).
Probably is. I use Linux for everything and only use Win10 at work on a VM with enterprise/LTSB version, so I’ve been shielded from most of its enshittification.
Nope, they wont. Micro$oft only cares money rather than basic OS for everyday and professional tasks
They’ve been adding spyware and ads into W10 so it’s not the money. They could easily add all W11 ads/spyware into 10 with an update. Older CPUs have several hardware vulnerabilities unrelated to the TPU required by W11.
IMO, they should add a startup message listing the hardware vulnerabilities of the installed CPU and leave it up to the customer.
Windows 11 has more spyware and its more ens***tificated
Yes but that could be added in a W10 update just like they’ve already done with previous W10 updates.
You can bypass the requirements since yeah, they were always artificial. I believe Rufus has an option when creating Win11 install USBs to remove the TPM and other requirements.
But then again, it’s nice, because all I need to make sure Microsoft doesn’t secretly update my Win10 machine in the night to Win11 is to turn off the TPM in the BIOS.
You can bypass the requirements
Not all of them. Windows 11 stopped booting with Update 24H2 on CPUs that don’t support the Instruction POPCNT. But that’s only an issue for really old CPUs like Intel Core 2 Duo and AMD Athlon 64 X2
For a bit more context than “really old”: I had an Intel Core 2 Duo in 2009.
Another angle: Those were some of the first dual-core x86 processors, released 2006 and 2005 respectively. (Intel had the Pentium D as its first in 2005).
I don’t remember which I had for sure. I’m leaning more towards Core 2 Duo. It was my first PC, I was 12 and built it with my father.
I also got my first computer around then. I saved up for ages and bought the first gen Intel MacBook with an Intel Core Duo (2 cores, no hyperthreading). I still have that laptop somewhere… It blew my mind it could run Windows, and Windows laptops couldn’t compare at the time.
Rufus has that option, I’ve used it myself to update to Win11 because I didn’t have a motherboard with TPM at the time.
Also wanna mention, the reason I updated was mostly because I thought Win10 was kinda ugly and I think Win11 was a huge update in that regard and also because of security reasons, since Win10 won’t receive any more updates in the near future. At the end of the day, I can count on one hand how often I boot Windows in a year (I almost exclusively use Linux), so I don’t really care about all the Win11 bullshit anyway.But then you won’t receive any updates if you use unsupported hardware to run Win 11
Well, not gonna get updates on 10 either, so is same-same
You can bypass the requirements since yeah, they were always artificial.
I think bypassing these checks would eventually render your PC vulnerable? for example, bitlocker support being void for computers that relies on TPM 2.0
There is no home-user need to run bitlocker. There’s dozens of alternatives, that do not rely on TPM, that are just as effective, and that you really should be using anyways since they aren’t controlled by M$.
I see, thanks
If you need encryption, veracrypt probably still works.
Having used both, doesn’t 11 have the same level of ads as 10 did? It seems like it’s really only OneDrive ads if you don’t use it if anything?
Maybe? I just said in another comment that I am pretty much exclusively Linux. I only occasionally use a W10 VM at work, and it’s enterprise/LTSB so I don’t get a lot of that junk.
100 point top thread based on the second and third hand opinions of a Windows non-user really sums up the quality of this discussion lol
I’ve lost count of the amount of posts and comment threads on here about “all the horrible ads and spyware” where the solution was to flip literally a single switch in Settings, Personalization.
Most Windows-hating threads on Lemmy in a nutshell tbh.
Every thread on lemmy is a windows hating thread by default :D
Windows 11 = O.S. Ima Ad-Laden. Coincidence? I think not…
Three years ago, I bought my wife a laptop with Windows 10 to replace her 10yo windows 7 machine.
It had hardware issues out of the box, and went in on two repairs. It works fine now, AFAIK.
But, she still doesn’t trust it, and she doesn’t think that she can move her Adobe CS6 license over to it…
I even bought her the affinity suite.
I’m starting to think she’ll never move on from Windows 7.
I think the major browsers stopped supporting it sometime during the last year, so my best hope is that some included certificates will eventually make her favourite websites stop working. That has to force her over to something more recent… right?
I use arch, btw.
up vote for arch.
I also use arch btw.
Me too
https://github.com/win32ss/supermium
Here is a relatively up to date Chromium fork that supports Windows XP and newer (I am not affiliated with the project btw)
I’ll keep that secret from her 😅
I use Win10 for one single program only and I’m currently testing on how to take that machine offline, but still be accessible locally. So far all I got is a blacklist regex in pihole. Blocking internet access to that machine via my router does not work for me, as I dual boot that machine with Linux for gaming. Tips per DM are very welcome actually.
Two options:
- Change the DNS and gateway so they’re pointing to 0.0.0.0
- Give the Windows install a static IP or lease, and block that IP on the router
Static IP on the windows machine in a jail’d subnet, if you still want to be able to access it from the LAN but don’t want it to have internet access.
If you’re happy with it not having any kind of network access (I’m not sure if when you say ‘locally’ you mean just physically, or it needs LAN as well), just disable the network adapter in windows.
Make Linux use a random MAC address, then block the physical MAC in the DHCP section of the router’e configuration. This will make Windows unablento recieve an IP address while Linux will be able to get ahold of one.
If windows uses tandom mac addresses, the feature should be able to be turned off.
Maybe have a script change your local IP address? You could for instance change your IP after logging into Linux and change before powering off.
Yeah it’s convincing people that Windows 11 is actually good
The only reason I’m on 10 with my main pc is because the 7th gen intel in there isn’t compatible with win11. I have another pc that is 7th gen, which I put windows 11 on and there is just something weird about it. When I do anything on that machine it doesn’t do it immediately, it sits for a few seconds before actions are done. Really aggravating. Clicking on a program on the taskbar takes a few seconds before it opens. File explorer, firefox browser, settings pane, … Once programs are running it’s fine to use said programs, but I wonder what they did to make it feel this way.
I have Linux on both machines as primary OS and they are super snappy, it’s not the hardware.
I had Windows 10 on an older (but not ancient) machine and it was literally unusable. 10-15 minute boot time and another 5 or so just to get a browser to open. The misery didn’t end once things were open; everything was still slower than when I had windows 7 on what would now be considered a truly ancient machine. I put Linux on it and experienced a roughly 5x speedup.
How much RAM do the systems have? 8gb? The delay may be in the system making room in ram for the program. Win11 is so ram hungry. It’s stupid.
They both have 16GB RAM.
The one with Windows 10 has a i5 7600k and GTX1060
The one with Windows 11 has a i7 7700k and GTX1080
Both with nvme ssd storage samsung evo (cant remember which exactly). The 7600k machine even has hdds and ssds via sata extra.
Probably a lower adoption rate than Vista
Well fuck Win 11, its a fucking downgrade. At Win 10 EOL I’m going back to linux.
Practically speaking, 10 vs 11 barely makes a difference.
The ads, AI garbage and spyware do though.
It’s funny, people said the exact same thing about Windows 10. It had ads and spyware. It also had Cortana, the AI garbage of its time. Consumers will never learn. Can’t wait for Windows 12 to also be seen as the one where Microsoft has ruined Windows for real this time.
I hate 10. I’d rather have 7 again. It really sucks being forced to change OS when it’s a bad switch, sucks even worse when it’s because there’s no choice.
I remember the day I built my PC and realized the only Windows OS most new games would run on was 10. So much bloat and useless crap, so many intuitive features gone or moved to obtuse places.
Microsoft is really good at enshittifying things and has been for the last decade or so. If only it wasn’t about the money.
At the risk of being unpopular, I think a lot of what people perceive as unintuitive or worse in terms of settings and OS features is just change. I’m on Enterprise Windows 11 at work and I wouldn’t willingly go back to Windows 10.
I think because it’s Enterprise I’m dodging a lot of the worst of it - ads, telemetry, surprise updates, etc - but the unified settings are better once you learn them, tabbed File Explorer is better, dark mode switching is way better - there’s plenty to like.
I want to see the rise of the Linux desktop as much as anyone, but implying Windows 11 is all bad isn’t that fair an assessment.
I take issue with the settings menu still relying on the old menus while having shuffled things around so I’m forced to look for settings. I don’t really bother with tabbed file explorer because it doesn’t bother saving my last open folders. I can’t speak to dark mode.
I can say that the start menu is horrendously slow, it can take up to 5 seconds for it to load. Sometimes keystrokes disappear in the start menu only to magically appear some time later. They made the right click menu worse and only changeable in regedit. They made RDP credentials only saveable using CMD. They removed vertical taskbars. There are a lot of issues in going to windows 11 for me.
I’m sure there are some improvements but at work we have a wiki page on how to unfuck up windows 11 so it works how you expect it to.
Good list! We differ on some of them…
I take issue with the settings menu still relying on the old menus while having shuffled things around so I’m forced to look for settings
This is still an issue, but I feel it’s diminishing as they (annoyingly slowly) do move all of the functionality to the new app. It was much worse in Windows 10, I think.
I can say that the start menu is horrendously slow, it can take up to 5 seconds for it to load.
“Works on my machine” is a profoundly unhelpful answer for me to give, but I’m fortunate enough not to have experienced this. If you’re looking for a workaround and don’t mind a further Microsoft app, the launcher in Powertoys is pretty solid.
Sometimes keystrokes disappear in the start menu only to magically appear some time later.
God, I hate the search from the start menu - but I would say that it’s been profoundly broken since Windows 8 and is marginally better in Windows 11.
They made the right click menu worse and only changeable in regedit.
100% agreed. I do think Windows 10 and earlier had a growing issue with the context menus getting unwieldy (Visual Studio is a great demo of how this can get really out of hand) but the solution Windows 11 have brought is annoying more than useful. I suspect at one point I made the registry change and forgot about it, because I’m back to a big Win10-style list.
They made RDP credentials only saveable using CMD.
Agreed again. That said, you’re a masochist if you’re not using an RDP manager like mRemoteNG! I wish Microsoft had a decent RDP app that wasn’t tied into Azure.
They removed vertical taskbars.
I found vertical taskbars incompatible with hotdesking on desks with different monitor configurations, but I do agree this one sucks.
how to unfuck up windows 11 so it works how you expect it to.
I think “how you expect it to” goes to the core of my point - needing to adapt to change isn’t inherently bad. But I’m not pretending Windows 11 is a wholesale improvement, and I do concede many of your arguments.
Change is a big part of it certainly but the fact that Windows is coming dangerously close to only functioning online to serve you as many ads as possible and to extract more and more of your personal data to sell all the while owning a once not for profit AI company gives such megacorp vibes.
I’m really not going to be happy about being forced to switch because a high end pc built years ago is suddenly “outdated”.
By no means is it Ultra 4K HD compatible but it can still run anything AAA just fine. There’s no excuse for what Microsoft is doing in my eyes.
Agree with all of those points, I just don’t love the reductive notion that every change is a bad change and nothing’s been for the better. In several ways it’s a better OS - but as you say, they are also getting more contemptuous of the end user with things like privacy, anticompetitivity, and ads.
Microsoft did ruin Windows with Windows 8, then they made it even worse with Windows 10 and now they’re making it even fucking worse with 11. Windows 7 was the golden age of Windows.
You and the rest of Lemmy.
There are dozens of us!
Going back? What does that mean? Why would I switch distros on Win 10 EOL?
It means I’m willing to put up with broken gpu drivers and wonky multidisplay setup rather than be on win11
That problem is that there isn’t a better version (not that it was peak in the first place anyway…)
Lots of people moving to Linux over Win11 anyway.
Yeah, right. 🙄
A lot do myself included. But not enough to matter. Most ordinary Windows users don’t even know what Linux is or understand why they should care.
Exactly - not enough to matter so not a lot.
Enthusiasts willing to get out of their comfort zone in whatever topic we choose are rare like kryptonite. The fact that you know 10 people, or a 1000 is by no means a lot considering the number of PC users.
“On Windows 10 PCs without an ESU subscription, however, any security flaws found from that day forward will remain unpatched, making those PCs increasingly vulnerable to online attacks.”
“Windows unpatched […] increasingly vulnerable to online attacks” is a facetious statement since the operating system is inherently malware.
Microsoft has a Windows 11 problem. Staying on Windows 10 is a symptom.
They only care money. Not their users (expect buisness users who stuck M$'s walled garden and pour millions, if not billions to it).
7 to 10 all over again
I love how you’re totally ignoring 8 existed.
Skip every other version
I know it’s not a hardware compatibility problem. People just don’t want ads/tracking/AI bullshit, a removed control panel, settings that are hard to find/hidden, etc.
All intel processor 8th gen+ (and even some 7th gen IIRC) are win11 compatible, motherboard have TPM2 for years, even my intel 6th gen MB have TPM2.0.
Next year the intel 8th gen will have 8 years, people have PC/laptop more recent than that. Problem is that win10 will not get security updates and all.
I’m using MX Linux BTW.
Most people don’t care or even know that it is AI/ad-infested. I’ve seen people just fighting through pop-up on multiple websites they use. When ci fronted by me, they just said that they have “tunnel vision” and don’t care.
I’m currently using a trick on my Windows 11 work machine to get the old UI for file explorer by going through the control panel and going up a directory.
I’ll be so pissed the day they strip it out, because their new design language is ridiculously slow and terrible for the sake of “cleanliness.”
6th gen intel and 1st gen ryzen run perfectly fucking fine still.
My parents are using a 3rd gen i7 and it works fine. My brother has a few computers, one is a 2nd gen intel, but I think he put Linux on that one. My home server was running on my 4th gen i7 until I upgraded it to my second gen Ryzen earlier this year after I upgraded my gaming.
CPUs from around 2005 onward are all perfectly usable IMO for the purposes of x86 desktops. As long as it’s got x86_64, SSE4 and at least two available threads. I would even wager that Pentium 4 hyperthreaded models (Wolfdale?) are still acceptable if we’re really pushing it.
I still got a Ryzen 1600, that would be just fine for when my flatmate needs a PC for working remotely, but his company reqires Windows 11 :-(
It’s not a hardware compatibility problem for you or people who have reasonably new computers. However, for the last decade or so, computers have kind of stagnated and old computers are still very functional, something I couldn’t have said a decade or two ago.
I’m typing this on a ThinkPad x201 which was released in 2010. TBF, I’ve updated it as much as I can (8GB of RAM and an SSD), it’s running Linux Mint because Windows drags, and even then it’s getting tired.
My Spouse’s laptop is an Acer with a 5th gen i3. A couple years ago, she was complaining it was getting a bit slow, so I threw an SSD in it and now she’s happy with how it runs Windows 10, and I’m sure it would run Windows 11 fine if a TPM2.0 chip wasn’t required.
It’s forced obsolesces for a hardware requirement most home users are never going to use.
