Summary
Key leaders of the “Abandon Harris” movement, which encouraged voters to oppose Kamala Harris due to U.S. support for Israel during the Gaza war, are now expressing unease about Trump’s incoming administration.
Many in the movement, including prominent Muslim leaders, voted for Trump hoping he would bring peace to the Middle East.
However, concerns are growing over his Cabinet picks, such as Mike Huckabee and Tulsi Gabbard, which some see as troubling for Muslim communities.
It’s weird people are blaming the ones who didn’t vote…
Obviously, if they voted trump, blame them away.
But it’s like people don’t realize how big of an ask it was to have people to vote for a genocide, especially when it’s against the country someone came from and their family is still there.
If Kamala would have won, trying to criticize her would have worked as well as criticizing Biden on Israel the last four years. Any criticism would be met with “Trump would be worse”.
With trump in charge, people will (rightfully) call out American support of a genocide as wrong. So while trump will undoubtedly make shit worse. Him being president means the Dem party will criticize him, and be more left in 2028.
If Kamala had won, she and the party would have moved more to the right in 2028. Just look at what happened after 4 years as VP. The few parts of her 2020 platform people liked, she moved to the right on.
The genocide of Palestinians didn’t start two years ago, it’s been going on for 70 years. It makes sense they’re thinking long term rather than only focuses on the “now” and voting for a lesser evil that maintains the status quo that is a genocide.
If you want someone to blame, it seems like the blame should be on the “left” candidate that ignored everyone actually on the left and became bff’s with Liz Cheney. Not the people that understand when a Republican wins, we get a primary which even when the party pick wins, the primary pulls them left. Even if it’s just lies to win the primary, as long as they keep the lies up, it helps in the general because voters want Dems to move left.
Without a primary, the chosen candidate takes the left for granted and moved right. In this case if Kamala won, we wouldn’t have another option in 2028 either, it would be 2032 before the next real primary.
Like…
I just don’t see how someone could blame anyone except the candidate, her campaign team, and the DNC.
They’re the ones that prevented a real primary, and that made the campaign platform that alienated lifelong Dem voters in hopes of gaining republican voters who wouldn’t be caught dead voting for a Dem.
It obviously failed, and the media is desperate to blame anything other than the stuff their billionaire owners bribed the Dems to support.
They’ll never ever say the problem was a Dem is too “fiscally conservative” because they’re the ones paying neoli eral candidates to pretend that’s a good move for the average American
Did we all just collectively forget that the DNC was panicking about rushing the vote for Kamala as fast as possible to avoid lawsuits from Republican states that could have kept her off the ballot?? If that happened then Trump would just have won by default.
We’re in this fantasy world that we could have had a primary. It’s stubborn old fucking Bidens fault that we were in this position. There was no time to have a primary even if I really really really wish there was. Biden decided that even though he doesn’t know where he is 90% of the time he was The Best Person™ to run against Trump because pretty much every human being that obtains some sort of power for any meaningful amount of time becomes a narcissistic asshole.
This is 100% on the old fuck Biden for not accepting that death comes for us all and decline is a real thing. He just plugged his ears and went “lalalalalalala I can’t hear you!” until someone told him he just finished a debate and it went horribly.
Did we all just collectively forget that the DNC was panicking about rushing the vote for Kamala as fast as possible to avoid lawsuits from Republican states that could have kept her off the ballot?? If that happened then Trump would just have won by default.
What?
As far as I know all those states would have just listed “Democratic Party”…
Like, that’s how the electoral college works. The party with the most votes gets to appoint electors and then they cast the vote for a person.
The name being on the ballot or just the party doesn’t matter. The DNC lied that it would matter to stop people from fighting Kamala’s anointment.
Same as they lied about “keys to the war cheat” that was the victory fund that the candidate and the DNC have control over, both have unrestricted access to the funds and there’s basically no accountability with it.
We’re in this fantasy world that we could have had a primary.
I stopped reading here.
We can’t really continue until you recognize the above. Then we can build off that if you still have questions.
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/johnson-replacing-biden-ticket-wrong-unlawful/story?id=112129063
That’s just a few articles after a very brief search. What do you think Republicans were freaking out about when Colorado tried to do the same thing to Trump because he really legally shouldn’t have been allowed to be on the ballot because of his involvement with jan 6th?
I get how the electoral college works, but the states decide how their elections are run and if the state chose to remove her then it’s not clear if there would have been a Democrat on their ballot at all. It’s not a federal thing. it’s 100x harder to get people to know to write in Kamala and to actually do it, than to just have an easy circle there for them to fill with her name in it so whether the legal challenges would have been successful or not, it’s not the best gamble to try to push it when we know how stacked against “us” the courts are.
None of this is to really defend the DNC, I fucking hate them and hope the party burns so we can rebuild something where the people actually give a shit about us. I just don’t think in the timeframe we had there was any reality where we could have taken the time for a primary nor did there seem to be any contenders that wanted to cause a disruption that close to the election.
That’s just a few articles after a very brief search
Ok…
But that’s Republicans claiming shit, I don’t know why you’d listen to them…
Do you listen to them often, or only when it supports your position?
Here’s a better source than Mike Johnson:
https://www.politifact.com/article/2024/jul/22/is-replacing-biden-on-the-ticket-unlawful-as-speak/
It explains why every excuse about keeping the Dem candidate off the general ballot was bullshit.
Biden was incapable of leading from the moment he was elected and the party could have forced him out much sooner if they were committed to having competent leadership through the next election cycle.
Edit: also, if they had forced him out, perhaps by invoking the 25th amendment during his term, I have zero doubt they would have proceeded with Kamala as if she was the incumbent and foregone a primary anyways.
They will pull myriad post-hoc excuses out of their ass, as they did to get Biden elected in the first place and is their specialty as a party, but those are the facts. The rest is just noise.
This is a volcanic take on Lemmy.
It is barely warm enough to soften butter, wtf do you mean
Already at -10. US Lemmy is very against abstainers.
You mean people who indirectly support fascism by not voting for the non-fascist party?
It’s true tho…
Without a primary the Dems consistently move as far right as they can. Sometimes they overshoot and it lets a Republican in.
But no one wanted Kamala as president in 2020, and she moved further right for 2024 and got even less popular.
The next four years will suck. But at least we might have a say in the 2028 candidate.
Kamala would have been almost a decade of “same as Biden” but she was likely to keep moving to the right.
Like, I voted for Kamala. But I knew it wasn’t going to matter because she had zero chance in my state. For it to go blue we need an 08 Obama type.
But I still held my nose.
I just don’t understand why people want to blame those who couldn’t hold their nose, instead of criticizing the unelected political machine who said Kamala was our only option despite being wildly unpopular.
People in the party and Biden’s admin knew how bad he was, and how his age was effecting him. It’s not an opinion anymore, even Chris Clizza admitted it after CNN fired him.
But the DNC still tried to shove him down America’s throats till the last second, then replaced him with Kamala.
If anyone deserves blame for trump, it’s those people. The ones who wasted 1.5 billon dollars on a campaign and couldn’t beat the hands down worst president America has ever had.
criticizing the unelected political machine who said Kamala was our only option despite being wildly unpopular.
We have FPTP for Presidential elections. We have two major parties who are in control. We have systems at state level that create and maintain gerrymandering and disfranchising certain demographics of voters. The only result was ever going to be Trump or Harris. It’s the system. Everyone knows it’s bad, and any changes will take effort and time, probably from the ground up. Some states have made progress but we have a long way to go.
So in the last election, there was only one way to prevent Trump, a known problem for everyone and every issue, from winning. And too many chose other routes for various reasons, and are now surprised that he won. The math and logistics of FPTP are all over the place, this shouldn’t be a shock. Don’t vote for one, the other will win. Period. The irony is that even though Harris might have just been Biden for another term, we can’t be sure of that. Imagine a timeline where Harris barely wins, and changes many of the things being protested for. Those people would look back and think, wow, we almost missed this possibility because everyone was saying she’ll be the same.
I mean, maybe and probably not. We won’t ever know. We did know what we’d get with Trump though, and thanks to not enough countering his votes, we’re getting even more. Yay.
You don’t need to convince me…
Like I said:
voted for Kamala. But I knew it wasn’t going to matter because she had zero chance in my state. For it to go blue we need an 08 Obama type.
I don’t have the power to decide the general candidate, the DNC calls it before my state has a chance to vote.
You don’t need to convince me Kamala would have been better than trump, I agree and trump will directly effect my life more than most Americans.
The important part is Kamala, her campaign, and the DNC couldn’t convince enough people of that.
The reason, is because Kamala had unpopular policies and little to no charisma. Yelling at people that they have to vote for the lesser evil isn’t a reliable way to win elections, and even when they do, it doesn’t help voters as much as they need.
So the answer to both questions is the same:
How do we stop Republicans?
And
How do we help Americans?
We run progressives.
You can stomp your feet and say you don’t want to. But if you want to do what’s most likely to prevent a Republican president, do everything you can to help a progressive win the primary.
Even if it’s not what you personally think is best, that’s what wins elections.
So if stopping Republicans is all that matter, start voting progressive
The reason, is because Kamala had unpopular policies and little to no charisma.
I think that’s giving non-voters too much credit. Time and again they were saying they didn’t know what her policies were, not that they were bad policies, despite the fact that she was pretty clear in communicating them.
The charisma thing was different, she HAD charisma, but it was this fake, robotic, insincere charisma (see the cocoanut tree nonsense), and when she was called out on it, she reacted poorly.
Walz had 1,000,000x the genuine, sincere, charisma, but people don’t vote for VP.
What did you think would happen when you abstained from voting?
Edit:(i see in another comment that you voted. So my question I guess is to anyone that abstained.)
You’re unlikely to get an answer.
Most people who abstained are checked out of politics. They’re not spending free time on social media talking about politics.
To get them to re-engage is going to take some work.
Which makes it harder to discuss what we need to change to get them back, especially when people reflexively down vote that discussion
What did the neolibs think would happen when they ran a campaign designed to appeal to the far right at the expense of the base?
Go ask them.
Some people tried, and were told, “shush, I’m talking”. And anyone with my views was locked out of the convention. So they have taken pretty severe actions to not be asked these questions at all.
Ok, but my point by saying go ask them is that I’m not responsible for that narrative. Not my circus, not my monkeys.
Fun fact: if you’re not actively against neofascists, you are with them, and everything you say to justify sitting at their table should and will be considered insincere vaporing. It really blows that other people are going to suffer when you get what’s coming to you. I feel bad for them. I better not hear so much as a sigh out of you, since you’re getting what you wanted, what you knew would happen, and what you chose.
All of this turns to dust when you understand that the democrats and republicans are two arms of the same neofascist party.
Oh please. That will be enough with the histrionics, go play outside.
It must be tough to look in the mirror for ya. We won’t feel sorry holding it up in front of you no matter what insults you throw my blue conservative “ally”.
Making shit up with conviction doesn’t make it true, which I know is probably a hard sell considering it’s the basis of your performative imitation of sincere belief. You can stop following me around and replying to everything I say now. I’ll dismiss you if that helps.
So the neofascists only exist on the other team, then, and anyone who disagrees is being hysterical?
And everyone who doesn’t actively oppose the neofascists is part of it. Except if they’re on your team and actively adopt the neofascists’s narratives, among other things that turn away voters, demonstrating that allowing the neofascists’s own narrative to exist uncontested at the national level is more important to them than winning on the actual alternatives that exist to the neofascists’s narrative.
Then you should ignore them turning you away as a voter and abandoning the supposed principles that make them not neofascist and vote for them anyways, because the other guy did it worse and “you can’t vote for anyone not evil so it isn’t on the ballot and don’t you dare mention that third parties exist on the ballot because then the evil party will win”
Hm. Understood.
Does this level of sophistry normally work for you, or is it just a shot in the dark?
Do you actually care about anything or is this just rhetoric to you?
“I know you are but what am I”
Clearly you have a lot of important things to say.
Hear Hear! Thank you for taking the time to voice the opinion of many. We should never relent and keep shining a light on these idiots and their moronic reasoning. They chose to not vote, vote jill stein or vote trump (all the same thing) and then want to reason about it? Justify it? They chose, they chose clearly and they knew what they did. Never let these fascist wannabees off the hook.
We should never relent and keep shining a light on these idiots and their moronic reasoning.
They are a significant portion of the dem vote. So if you follow your plan you never win an election again.
Only uniting behind a candidate who is NOT a right wing fellating, corporatist sellout, genocidal peice of shit do the dems have any chance at all of any future. It might even be too late already though.
This is true now and was true before this last election too. Now you have proof staring you in the face.
If you are so concerned with 3rd party voters, you should be working tirelessly to replace First past the post voting in your state.
That way, people could vote how they want and still have their vote count against those they don’t want in office.
Or maybe you just enjoy telling others how to vote. So which is it, are you working to replace FPTP voting or are you against democracy?
I do not seek or want to tell others how to vote. I just look at the results and the people abstaining or voting trump or voting 3rd party should accept what they did: elect donald trump.
Just admit it, these people (possibly you as well?) fucked america over and the consequences will be dire. But accepting responsibility and acknowledging these people know what they did seems out of the question for some reason. It seems they rather would argue someone else did this, just as you seem to do. It’s always someone else who ‘blocks’ you in doing the right thing. Now there are scores of people left in uncertainty and quite possibly face a horrendous time while the fascist is in office.
My message to people who made this choice: don’t mope and moan, accept what you did and live with the outcome of your choices and what they will do to part of society who will not be able to defend themselves.
Imagine that, helping elect that fascist and then complain you had no other choice so hey, fuck all the vulnerable people who will suffer because of it, not my problem.
And now wanting to hide under the umbrella of righteousness because ‘you had to make a stand’, also hating that people point out that what you did was morally questionable. It has to mess with your head I imagine and what better defense is there then attack and blame others?
I don’t think people are really thinking long term, i don’t think there’s any strategy like that at play. (This is kind of accelerationist anyway, even if it were.) However, i think people who blame the voters for refusing to vote for an obviously poisonous candidate are completely delusional.
People do not have a duty to vote for the Democratic Party’s chosen candidate, no matter who it is. Not moral and not otherwise. The candidate has a duty to appeal to the voters. The party has a duty to put forward candidates that can get elected. If they refuse to do that and the voters refuse to vote for them, that’s not on the voters.
(This is kind of accelerationist anyway, even if it were.)
It 100% is, and to be clear I don’t think it was the best path, which is why I held my nose like I have for a very long time and voted D.
But it’s the path we’re on now.
When a Dem wins, they appoint the DNC chair and a symbolic vote confirms it.
When the Dem loses, the chair usually resigns and the DNC has a chance to change direction.
If Kamala had won 2024, the party would stay the same. If she then won 2028 as an incumbent with no primary, shed get to pick chair again. Then in 2032 they would influence the primary to get a similar candidate. It’s a feedback loop that only has a chance to break when a Republican takes office.
Literally, the only way the DNC has a chance to change direction is when the Republicans win. You gotta look at the silver lining, DNC leadership change was accelerated. Which hopefully will be a good thing long term because DNC leadership for decades has been absolute dog shit.
Or they double down and we’re probably fucked. But don’t give up. There’s still the potential of a fair primary in 2028 regardless.
Like Heinlein said long ago:
Certainly the game is rigged, but if you never play you’ll never win
Biden started this election -400 electoral votes in his own polling. Kamala Harris was the least popular, most divisive candidate in the primary (even as gamed as the 2020 primary was) and left at the bottom of the race.
You are right. You even see the echo chamber narrative that Biden could have still beaten Trump on bluesky being the preferred narrative.
DNC has almost fully pulled a “It’s the children who are wrong” and I’m not convinced they will ever have a fair, open primary again. This was a historic self-own that saw Trump picking up support in nearly all categories.
DNC has been playing Russian roulette with their primaries and voting base for years, honestly the gun has fired a couple times…
2/2/25 they vote for chair…
There’s a very good chance we get a competent chair who cares about winning. Ben Winkler is my favorite but expect for that crazy lady (Marianne Wilkinson?) who has no chance, any of the candidates so far would be a drastic improvement.
What really hurt us was Biden picked the last chair, and like most of his picks it was absolutely horrible.
So until we hear the results of the chair election, I’m trying to be an optimist.
I almost don’t have a choice but to be optimistic. There are more prominent people who are to left of the DNC who are going to demand more power. I see that happening now and being rebuffed by the old guard. It’s a matter of time and I hope it doesn’t break the machine entirely, we need the stability of institutions.
Gonna be honest, i think Biden could have beaten Trump. I don’t blame him for stepping down (though if he had done so sooner i think it would have been better) but i think he had at least as much chance as Harris, maybe more. That’s purely strategic, though. I think the calls for him to step down were coming from a position of weakness and fear and were interpreted as such by the electorate.
He could have easily won if he did something about Gaza other than “support genocide” but here we are, at the (current) end of a long string of such decisions.
We see with the UHC shooting how much anger there is for the inequities in this country, it would be easy to tap into that.
“Nothing will fundamentally change”
Anyone Democrat could have won if they did the populist thing and didn’t split the difference on Gaza. I think Biden and Harris might have been the only two people who could have lost to him!
Biden wasn’t going to run a different campaign to the one that was losing to Trump when he finally stepped out. Nor did Harris. They both ran losing campaigns against a dude who’s a fucking felon.
The message last time from leftists in the party were that they held their nose to vote for Biden in 2020, it a referendum AGAINST Trump. Well, the DNC loaded another 2 bullets into the revolver, maybe 3 if you included Liz Cheney at the end there, rolled the wheel, and fired a bullet right into the country again.
Mark my words, instead of moving left to capture the voters again, they’ll ratchet right. Fuck the DNC.
Given how Harris ran her campaign, in retrospect, I actually agree that Biden probably would have performed better and I absolutely did not believe that was possible after the first debate.
Harris ran an historically shit campaign that cost bonkers money.
Harris’s major flaw was saying she’d just be more Biden, which Biden would definitely do. And for as poor as she did, it was still an improvement on Biden’s numbers. They needed someone willing to break from the status quo.
She said she’d be more Biden but she didn’t have the track record to back it up. Biden has been underwhelming in a lot of ways but Harris rejected maintaining stronger union ties and failed repeatedly to commit to keeping on Lina Khan - she basically ran on “Who wants four years more of Biden but more neoliberal!”
I would really love to be in the room with these idiots the moment they hear that Trump has signed the law that will arm Israel to the teeth and sanction them to exterminate every Muslim in Gaza. I want to see the terror and regret in their faces. Because this is what they have wrought.
Wow imagine if the whitehouse continued to arm israel and give them a greenlight for ongoing genocide. What a terrible world that awaits us in 2023-present
I mean, I’m assuming you also hope he doesn’t do that because you care about and value the welfare of Palestinians, right?
I get this is your imaginary “i told you so” moment, but can you try not to sound positively giddy about it.
Also, have to do the obvious and point out that the IDF has been armed to the teeth and already exterminating the population of Gaza for over a year now. They shot 5 journalists and 5 doctors yesterday. The homeland of the Palestinians is all but entirely destroyed, comparable to damage on the scale of nuclear weapons. Their homes are gone. Their land is stolen. They are starving to death in droves. The rest are being rounded up and shot en mass. The current administration is arming the IDF, funding the IDF, and preventing the world from intervening to save Palestine.
This isn’t a wish fulfillment. This is inevitability because Trump isn’t going to hold back. Harris might have toed the party line because the Democratic party is just as leashed to AIPAC as the Republicans but at least they were making an attempt to stop Israel. Trump has said that he will give them everything they need to wipe out everyone in Gaza. This isn’t about “I told you so” it’s about accountability. The moment the country voted Trump in Israel began just ignoring Biden’s pleas to end the carnage because they knew that on January 20th they will have all the support they need.
Meh, of course we wish and hope he doesn’t, but everyone knows that he will. He’s repeatedly said so.
It’s an extremely real and tangible “I told you so” moment for myself and everyone else who repeatedly and vainly told people like this over months that this would happen. Because of course it would. The best possible chance we had was to elect Harris and hope that the rumblings about her being much more forcefully against it in private turned out to be true, because no 3rd party candidate stood a farts chance of winning, and Trump explicitly campaigned on acceleration.
Harris campaigned on acceleration too. She’s been explicitly in favor of giving Israel whatever they want the entire time. They blocked Palestinians from talking at the DNC. They keep blocking any UN resolutions demanding ceasefire. There are no rumblings. Trump won’t need to do anything. Gaza is already destroyed. The genocide has been in full force for over a year. Joe Biden made this genocide. He protected it, sheltered the genociders from intervention. Gave them all the guns and money in the world.
It’s an imaginary “I told you so”. The people you ranted at before the election were not the Palestinian Americans who refused to vote for Harris. They weren’t on Lemmy. I still agree with them. I wouldn’t vote for someone who was committing acts of genocide against my family, either. Harm reduction means nothing if my whole family is dead. It means nothing if my culture is gone.
The American government don’t give a shit about Palestine. None of them. Republicans, democrats, united in their support of Israel. Palestine is done. It’s been done. It’s a smoldering pile of ruins full of starving orphan children and IDF soldiers taking pot shots at them for fun. They’re murdering journalists and doctors on a daily basis. The damage is so widespread, so thorough that it is incomparable. Whole cities gone. Fully dissapeared. This is present day. This is now. This is all with Biden in power.
No, there is no “I told you so.” Kamala was not going.to stop the genocide. She never once gave any suggestion that she would ever withhold support of Israel. She said many times that she would always support Israel no matter what. This is an all American genocide. Republican and Democrat ruling factions are both unequivocally in support of it. You’re not paying attention if you genuinely believe otherwise.
But Kamala Harris had Liz Cheney on stage with her that one time!!!/s
Honestly that’s a whole other problem. The Democrats need to fucking stop courting the “moderate conservatives”. Those fucks will N E V E R vote for a Democrat over a Republican. No matter how godawful they are.
I can watch an action movie, or I can watch a drama that has a little bit of action added to appeal to action movie fans… Why the hell would I choose the latter?
Gotcha, so the solution to that problem is putting the Republican in the White House anyway. I’m sure Dems sure showed them!
Show me a trump voter who is not a wealthy white male and I’ll show you an idiot.
TIL tax law hinges on a persons color.
Why exclude the wealthy white males?
Because they might just be selfish and evil.
Mainly because they are members of the class of people that will benefit, directly and indirectly, from a Trump presidency.
Knowing this, they aren’t stupid for voting for the person who will enable the gross accumulation of wealth through the systematic deregulation of industries and privatization of government services. There’s one group of people who will benefit from this: the wealthy (who are disproportionately white and male).
The idiots are people who voted for Trump thinking that his administration will result in a net positive for them socially and economically.
Voting against your interests is dumb; voting inline with your interests is not.
The only white males that will benefit from a trump presidency are billionaires. Anyone else isn’t voting inline with their best interests
… so you might say, wealthy white males.
Not really, “wealthy white males” is a group that could contain millions of people. In no context does “wealthy white males” exclusively mean billionaires.
Alt Timeline: “French Revolutionaires doesn’t believe their leadership is good enough, supports the Monarchy instead” 🤡
looks awkwardly at Napoleon in our timeline.
Also… like… the Reign of Terror. Maybe some of the French Revolutionaries should have given more thought to their own leadership. How historically ignorant is this moderately well upvoted analogy?
Actually, I’m wondering if it was an intentional joke - but I went through the US school system through college and most of what I learned about Napoleon came from Total War and the history channel. (And later on through Oversimplified which is actually extremely careful and detailed about their information and then by going to the dude’s fucking tomb and reading shit)
My vague recollection is that the French Revolution was briefly touched on as part of US history Ala “Look, these French people helped us out and built a Republic modeled after ours (false) and then they sent us a shiny statue because Yum, Democracy So Good.” But I also struggled with ADHD in school so my memory isn’t super reliable.
Americans with hardons for the founding fathers rarely talk about France’s involvement because pretty much all the founding fathers took their time in France to get lit af and pound some strange on the nascent Republics bill which doesn’t really fit (along with Deism) in the WASPy version of American history.
The leopards are looking mighty hungry.
I’m not disagreeing that leopards face an obesity epidemic but it’s also very interesting that to r image you posted has a “紅星新聞” (Chinese) or “Red Star News” watermark.
How could anyone have seen this coming.
No no no,they saved Palestine, remember?
Now that the Dems aren’t in control all those Palestinians are perfectly safe.
Right, tankies? That’s all you were screeching about back in November. Now it’s cricket chirps, like Palestine even mattered to you lot. Disgusting.
I’m not from the US but I know that I would really struggle morally to cast a vote for either party.
Yes, voting for Trump because of Palestine is stupid, but I can easily see how voting for the party that keeps sending money and weapons, and supporting them in the UN, while pretending to ask them to “be more careful about killing civilians”, would not be very desirable either.
The US electoral system is absolute dogshit, but in my opinion the Dems lost this election all by themselves.
I love how you are being downvoted without anyone actually providing a counter point. Because you are absolutely right.
Leading up to the election lemmy was flooded with Palestine bullshit and Genocide Joe, and people that suggested it’s a war started by fucking Israel and you should be boycotting them were downvoted.
A lot of people here got swept up in the propaganda, and it was painful to see how dumb my side can be, but here we are.
Orange man is coming and suddenly no-one is posting about Palestine and every thread I’m in doesn’t have people screeching genocide Joe.
I’m fully convinced lemmy was flooded with foreign assets spreading bullshit and hurting democratic turnout.
It’s painful to see how effective it was, an an issue so ridiculous I couldn’t have believed it if it was in a book. Country X, with president Y attacks Z, and idiots here are screaming at county U with president J…
It wasn’t just Lemmy, I know otherwise reasonably intelligent people who became literally brainwashed from TikTok. We’re talking far left, never Trumper’s, knew he was an existential threat, but couldn’t have their moral superiority tarnished and HAD to vote 3rd party. They bought into that propaganda hook, line and sinker.
There has been a recurring argument (not mine, heaven forbid) both prior to and in the aftermath of the election that not voting for the dems would show them that they can’t keep running away to the right and still expect to win. It would teach them a lesson.
It baffles me that they think a) the Dems would actually learn the lesson, b) the alternative wouldn’t be that much worse and c) the alternative that quite explicitly aimed to abolish democracy entirely would willingly afford the dems a chance to learn that lesson. If they can’t eliminate democracy itself, they’ll try to neuter and bias it as heavily as possible until they’ve got the same kind of pseudo-democratic one-party fuckery that you see in other countries like… China, North Korea, Russia, Belarus…
Huh, that’s funny, seems like all the countries whose boots they’re so eager to lick. I’m sure that’s coincidence, right?
Actually, that’s a lie. I don’t believe it’s coincidence at all. I think it’s part of a deceitful strategy to undermine democracy through spreading willful ignorance and channeling voter frustration and disillusionment into frustration with democracy itself. Hell, there are even people claiming that a dictatorship is a necessity of revolution, that you can’t build a new and better system without placing someone in charge of building it - because that worked out so fucking well with the other communist revolutions, right?
Every single fucker who gargles dictator cock under the guise of “communism” and “leftism” is an authoritarian, a traitor against the people they feign class solidarity with. You don’t save democracy by not participating. You don’t hold politicians accountable by supporting their opponents.
And that’s being charitable and assuming they’re just misguided, not intentionally malicious foreign actors.
well said
No shit.
“Many in the movement, including prominent Muslim leaders, voted for Trump hoping he would bring peace to the Middle East”
How the FUCK would you hope for that? Have you been living under a rock and didn’t know who Trump actually is and what he does? The Muslim ban Trump? That Trump? Bringing peace to the Middle East? Seriously?
Yes: the guy who banned Muslims from entering the US on his previous term will end the war will bring peace to the Middle East.
monkey’s paw curls
palestinians are thoroughly genocided and Gaza + West Bank + other lebensraum in the area have all structures reduced to grade #7 gravel
That is also technically peace, in that there is no more fighting. It’s just a really bad one.
Truly, the gullibility of some people simply beggars belief.
Yeah, his vision of peace was Israel getting rid of anyone who they don’t have good relationship with.
These are people who believe in invisible sky wizards. Clearly, they’re capable of believing any amount of BS.
The American electorate is stunningly stupid and disconnected from reality. Look up some of the trending Google searches on election day, they’re stupider than you think
Devotion to religion is also a red flag for inability to think critically. Being conditioned not to think for yourself is a tenant of all religions. The more fundamental the less thought is happening. Trump and the republicans have realized this and used it to his advantage almost exclusively.
decades of dismantling the education system will do that to you…
This is a bullshit excuse. The average America receives a very well rounded education. They choose not to use it.
By what metric? We’re behind most other developed nations.
Like the ones confused that Biden wasn’t an option.
Wait wait, I remember a guy who was constantly arguing and berating everyone about how Biden was just the worst Satan reincarnation or some shit and how we all needed to band together against both him and Harris. Oooh @HomerianSymphony , you still around, bud?
We’d like an interview.
Looks like that user no longer exists, at least on Lemmy.world
From what I see the user went to Bluesky, but we don’t know if he really did it or if his account was suspended.
They were probably just astroturfing, and now that they’ve successfully completed their objective, they’ve got no reason to stick around.
I still see a handful of the useful idiots that were on here paroting those talking points, and I have to wonder if they’ve been able to accept that they were sold a bill of goods.
Genocide Joe is a demon who put his own ego over the good of the country. He knew he couldn’t win, he knew Kamala couldn’t win, and yet he (and his/her campaign) stuck with the losing playbook because they don’t believe anything they say
I have to wonder if they’ve been able to accept that they were sold a bill of goods.
They were the bill of goods. They were a line item on the Trump campaign budget. Their temp job is over so they’re not posting.
Well yeah but there were also useful idiots who actually bought it and did that work for free.
The true believers don’t disappear.
What did sticking with genocide Joe and Kamala get you? They knew they were gonna lose and didn’t change course 1 bit
You sure aren’t living up to that name with comments like that.
Look, it wasn’t about Biden or Harris or Obama or whomever else you want to project your shitty little excuses on. This cycle was about stopping a then would-be dictator. We were trying to do right by the world. Not by you. Not by the MAGA cultists. Not by Gaza or Ukraine alone. For everyone through stopping someone who had made it clear he, and through the agreement and support of the GOP, would do worse.
Then you single issue idiotic disappointments wouldn’t wake the fuck up. Yes, the Dems fucked up. Harris started strong and some snob Left probably ancient “strategist” convinced her to shift gears and she toned it down, along with other bad choices. It was shit. You know what I can die knowing I did?
Not voting someone who might actually be fucking evil BACK into the Office of the Biggest God Damn Chair we have. So kiss my ass, Schwdinehund, at least we tried to stop what’s coming.
Biden had no chance of winning. Kamala had no chance of winning. Their campaigns knew that.
If stopping a would be dictator is so important they would run someone with a chance. The Democratic party is dead, sticking with it means you want to lose
Sticking with it wasn’t a choice. You seem to believe taking our current situation and just rolling that shit back is a time machine we have the capacity of producing. There was no other candidate and we knew that. Unless you have a realistic suggestion that would have worked at the time.
We’re listening.
Biden put his ego over country and stayed in the race because he didn’t care if Trump won. Kamala accepted the nomination even though her team knew she couldn’t win because she didn’t care if Trump won. The Democrats don’t care if they lose, supporting them means you don’t care if you lose which means you don’t really care about stopping the would-be dictator.
Okay, at the risk of being censored: You’re actually being stupid.
We do NOT support the current Democrats, nor the party, nor their way of doing things. We supported trying to make sure Trump did not get a second term by standing beside the only candidate(s) that had a chance because there wasn’t anyone else. So stop for a second and think because it’s clear you’re a single issue voter: You can’t stop repeating the same faulty freaking logic.
Then is not now.
Then does not mean we supported them.
We wanted a better world. Days where we don’t have to worry so much. We support Gaza and Ukraine.
If this and much, much more means supporting the opponent of a would-be dictator, then we fucking do so. That’s the difference. WE SAW THE BIGGER PICTURE and did what we had to do.
It was what had to be done. The Dems fucked up their messaging. However, people like you chose to fuck our home and possibly the world to greater and lesser degrees because you stand so damned fucking stalwart it’s like trying to convince a brick wall to fall over with kind words of encouragement. If I live through these next four years I hope to be a part of the team that writes the history books. If I am I’ll make sure to cite people like you, @MisterScruffy , for your contribution towards tyranny and dictatorship.
And for the record: Yes, I’m pissed. Not at you, you’re dumb. At what brought us to this point.
He just tried to start a war with Iran, NBD.
Trump has only ever wanted to glass the place.
The utterly bizarre thing to me is I don’t really think he’s tried to hide any of this. Like he’s pretty much doing what he said he was going to do, he’s done it before, why did anyone think he was going to do anything different?
Before the election he did try and deny any connection to or intent around project 2025 - of course the mainstream media never called him on that bullshit.
But but but you see b b b Biden bad because [mental gymnastics intensifies].
Way to go assholes. You fucked around and now we all get to find out.
Biden admin is currently fully cleansing Gaza and starting on the West Bank. There is little Trump can do worse.
You lack imagination.
You sweet summer child. I envy your optimism.
I would say likewise, but that would be rude to Palestinians.
Fun fact, Palestinians on the ground preferred Biden/Harris to Trump.
I need to find the survey again, but yeah, at least in the West Bank, they know that Trump will be an active and willing partner in the genocide.
Just wait until Trump disbands NATO and Russia starts turning the rest of the Baltics into Ukraine. Then bets are off as to whether you are even smart enough to realize… oh, never mind.
Congrats on getting exactly what you deserve.
We fucking told you so.
